Chuck Austen & Patrick Olliffe on the Devastating Sci-Fi of DEFIANT

Chuck Austen and Patrick Olliffe have spent decades charting out worlds and characters, leaving behind a rich tapestry of fiction within such halo'd properties as the X-Men, Avengers, Superman, Thor, Spider-Man, and beyond. In the past ten years, the creative team has pivoted off that foundation to create some of their most resonant, touching, and fearless work, including the Tormented and Edgeworld.

That chemistry reaches a new zenith with Defiant, the story of an intergalactic war veteran—Sandusky—as he unravels the story of his son's disappearance and his potential role in a conflict that spans lightyears. 

Ernie Estrella asked the duo about their historical collaboration and the obstacles to crafting new world(s) in the sci-fi quilt for this in-depth Q&A.  

To read an expanded preview of Defiant, read the Defiant Ashcan—available now for free. Defiant #1 hits comic book shops on 3/12/25.

This is a fascinating read, in which readers are thrown into an intense situation and must unwind it, creating a fun exercise of a reading experience. It's a great way to throw a reader into a sink or swim situation, but it's not the way typical science fiction stories start, is it?

Chuck Austen: Not at all. But I don’t like doing things the way other people have done them. Most science fiction series sort of ease you into their unique world a little at a time. But if you were to watch a “historical” film, a Clint Eastwood western, or a Master and Commander, or a Braveheart-type movie, you’d be dropped into those unique worlds, and be expected to ride the unfamiliar currents and learn as you enjoy the ride, with customs and language and costumes as different as any science fiction series.  So we approached it that way. 

Pat and I tend to do that with whatever “universe” we’re playing in. In fact, Pat will tell you, one of the many fun things about working together is that we both enjoy defying expectations, while respecting the genre, and source material that we both love—doing things that no one has seen before. We’re both fans of science fiction, and horror, and those tropes are a blast. But we don’t want to do what everyone has seen already. So in Edgeworld we took the typical Western genre, with the “sheriff and deputy” tropes, and threw that in a blender with Star Wars. While respecting both, giving nods to both, we pushed past each to show “we love what you love, but we’re going to take you someplace new.” We did the same with The Tormented by showing respect for the horror genre and familiar themes, yet approaching it from a direction we’d never seen before. The way we do that is by grounding the stories in real human experiences, and emotions.

In Defiant, we went with a kind of Great Exploration period of future space travel. So we approach it like that future history, like a big historical film. Here’s our universe, here’s how weird, and amazing, and fantastical it is. Don’t worry if it’s a little unfamiliar… you’ll catch up as you're swept along, because at its core, the thing that’s going to anchor you is that it’s really just a story of a man trying to solve the mystery behind his beloved son’s death.

Patrick Olliffe: I've always been a fan of stories that start “in progress” especially in comics where you don't have much time to grab a reader. It becomes more imperative when you've created something new and are hoping to have someone pick up the book and get involved in it right away. 

Defiant #1 Cover E by Dan Panosian 

A science fiction story from scratch seems like an ocean of starting possibilities, but at the same time, challenging to be original or not be influenced by something else. Why don't you run down the main characters and what it is in each one's make-up as well as visually that made it fun for you both to write and draw?

Chuck Austen: When approaching a new science fiction series, it really is a challenge not to be just another Star Wars, Doctor Who, Dune, or some new variant of Star Trek. You literally have to challenge yourself to intentionally focus on something utterly different, that isn’t like anything you can remember, or is specifically spinning something familiar on its head.

In the case of Defiant, I came to Pat and said, “I want to make Philip K. Dick proud. I want to go full Grant Morrison. I want this to be weird, and odd, and every character is something people might not even want to read about until they realize after they’ve finished it, ‘wow. I was totally into that. I can’t wait to see what happens next.’” 

So we began to talk about characters you might not even consider heroic, that are, in a lot of ways, rejects that no one cares about, and settled on our cast. There’s Sandusky, an aging, broken-down, once well-known space-faring soldier-turned-diplomat, whose best years are behind him. There’s Tibbi, an outdated, obsolete personal care robot who’s no longer worth repairing and is destined to literally be melted down, and recycled. Then there’s Dog, a life-form that befriends Sandusky, and hangs around with him and Tibbi, lounging, eating, watching old Earth movies, and growling at the mailman–basically an intelligent pet. They’re sent on a mission by an advanced, highly evolved race of beings, and joined by two women, one a hybridized Earth soldier who was decommissioned before she saw action and has no idea what to do with herself, the other an angry, alien female with an unnatural, and passionate hatred of Sandusky. 

They’re all locked in a small ship, and sent off to solve one of the galaxy’s biggest mysteries–which also happens to be how Sandusky’s son died.

All this is wrapped up in a cutting edge quantum physics universe that is as spiritual as it is scientific, that seems to be largely run by immensely evolved, benevolent races whose plans are so long term it’s a wonder they have the time or interest to bother with humans and humanoids at all.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like that.

Patrick Olliffe: When Chuck first talked to me about the characters he had in mind it was easy for visuals to start popping into my head! Tibbi and Dog being the most straightforward, a classic 1950’s looking robot and a dog-like alien being. Sandusky’s character description was very cool, I wanted to make sure he wasn't a visual redo of Killian, who Chuck and I created in our Edgeworld book. One of the cues for Sansudsky came after Chuck and I had a conversation about visual influences. He mentioned being a fan of Master and Commander and when he did, that gave me a jumping off point. So I used the British naval uniforms of that period as reference for Sandusky's uniform.

I think the scope of the series is something to be in awe of. 

Chuck Austen: Thank you.

Defiant #1 Cover B by Ariel Olivetti

You're always in the moment of any story but in one issue of Defiant, there is a sense of thousands of races, of inhabitable planets and situations that arise. Some of that is gathered in the way characters interact, what they say, their memories, and also what's left unsaid. It's a real craft in storytelling. Could you share in trusting the reader to piece these fragments together as part of the reading experience, in hopes of walking away with a universal impression of the scope of this world?

Chuck Austen: It’s beyond just trusting the reader, it’s intentionally giving them answers that lead to more mysteries as part of the entertainment. You tell them what they need to know for this particular story, and let them fill in the rest with their own imagination. Let them ask their questions, and then write their own stories. Anything you come to new is that kind of experience. 

When I came to LA I started out working on the Fox lot. I met a lot of people with history in the film and television businesses, and I’d hear their incredible stories, but I was an outsider. So I’d hear a piece of something, what I might need to know that’s relevant in the moment, and as they get to know me, and share a little of their lives with me–they’re just telling me what happened to them–but I’m losing my mind because, “Oh, my God, you acted with Dustin Hoffman!”

So part of telling a story this way is based on changing careers and meeting your idols. Part of this is just getting older. LOL. You get to a certain age, look back on your life, piece it all together into this lovely, sad, thrilling, depressing, joyous tapestry of varied experience, and suddenly you're thinking: Damn. A lot has happened to me. So with Defiant, it was wanting to hint at immense scope, and grandeur, and unanswered questions, and let people take from it whatever they want.

So from the beginning, Pat and I wanted to create a deep, rich universe. One that hints at immensity, and mystery, and wonder–and even more immensity, mystery, and wonder beyond that. So, as much as we may explain in our story things that are relevant in the moment, there are dozens of things we don’t explain. It was the idea that these characters, who seem to be nothing, and nobody, and are in fact destined for decommissioning–have lived these incredible lives, and you can’t hear it all. They’ve been places, and seen things, and done things, and lived in ways that no one will ever really know about. To you, it’s cool and hints at so much more. But to them, it’s just the stuff that happened in the course of getting through one day to the next.

Patrick Olliffe: Hard to add to what Chuck said! But my personal experience is that I know I love it when stories hint at a larger world beyond the one I’m engaged in. It adds mystery and intrigue to the experience. I think telling a story that is too linear, keeping only to the main characters and only their current situations/conflicts isn’t complex or layered enough for today’s audiences. I think the readers of Defiant will be savvy enough to put the pieces together and enjoy the adventure!

Defiant #1 Interior Art by Patrick Olliffe

You do give the impression that out of all the races in this story that humans are at the root of where something bad goes down. They're either the source of someone's resentment or anger. We're often the root of our own planet's demise and environmental decay, could humans/humanoids be the worst of them all?

Chuck Austen: Ah, could they be? Or could they be the best of them, as Sandusky, and Jek’Ska, and Lucy move through this story toward a greater truth that wouldn’t have been revealed without them? For me it’s never as simple as “We are the problem,” because I see us as both the problem and solution. The heart of any living breathing story is growth. You start at one place, and grow into something else. Hopefully something better. Maybe we are at the root of much of our own environmental decay. But I’m old enough to remember thinking, “ah, the ocean is huge! Just toss your garbage overboard.” And young enough to have learned better. We can be the worst. But we can also learn, and become the best. As is often said in Defiant, the choice is ours. It’s all about free will.

That being said, the conflict and the heart of this story are very relatable human problems. Even if other races are caught up in it, share with me the places you wanted to explore with Captain Sandusky and his journey of finding closure with his son.

Chuck Austen: Do you mean the places and worlds that come up in their past travels? Or just this series? Oh, I want to visit them all! In a Fold Ship! I want to see the Space Station of The Collective, I desperately want to visit the hidden world of the Makers, take a trip around The Chindali Binary–from a safe distance, of course–and then visit Dog’s homeworld. There are places in the second, and third issues I’d also want to visit, but I don’t want to spoil too much.

Patrick Olliffe: This gets very exciting, the exploration of new worlds, new races, new experiences for our crew have endless possibilities! The chance to create visuals to go along with these experiences is one of the things I love the best about this project!

This is a process question but I want to know if the DSTLRY format lends to some interesting storytelling choices. I noticed a lot of use of the double-page spreads and the entire two page spread for panels. Where did you feel like you could push things in the DSTLRY pages that you wouldn't or couldn't tell in a standard American comic format? Did either of you want to push the envelope and experiment with the bigger pages?

Defiant #1 Cover C by Patrick Olliffe

Chuck Austen: [DSTLRY CCO] Chip [Mosher] wanted us to push things as far as possible, and encouraged us to go the limit. He recognizes that the format is unique, and like with us and how we tell a story, he wants to take what’s familiar, and go further than anyone has gone before. And, as I said about the story, I love pushing envelopes. Hell, if we could have a fold out page, I’d find a way to make that work! So Pat and I used it as best we could throughout.

For us, though, it’s always about what serves the story, so we used two-page spreads a lot, but always for maximum visual and emotional impact. When you turn to a two-page spread, it should make your heart race. Get your adrenaline pumping. Raise your cortisol levels. It should fill you with awe, or break your heart. In fact, Chip gave us two extra pages so we could really hit one particular emotional beat harder that needed that punch. So we’re on the same page about–not only pushing things, but pushing them for all the right reasons.

Patrick Olliffe: The larger format definitely gives me some more room to play with page design and layout. Like Chuck said, using the double-page option to push the emotional impact of a scene has been great and hopefully effective!

There's a surprising amount of comedy in Defiant. Especially with the way Dog uses pop culture and the phrasing of his dialogue, it was a pleasant surprise. When there's a heavy situation that builds out of these intense moments, deciphering the conflict between these characters and alien races, these moments of levity really hit the mark. How difficult is it to craft these moments both in script and visually?

Chuck Austen: It’s actually harder to refrain. LOL. Writing the comedy is easy, and so much fun, but sometimes I’ll add a joke where it doesn’t belong. Kill a dramatic moment, or step all over an emotional beat. Often there won’t be a joke, but Pat will add a funny expression, or pose, and it will strike me in the rewrite, and lettering stage, and I’ll add one in. I feel comedy is important to drama. You want to give the reader highs and lows. The emotional swing is more entertaining when you go from one extreme to another.

Patrick Olliffe: This is something I've always liked about working with Chuck, his use of humor. He always uses it at the right time. Just when a scene needs a bit of a laugh to offset a darker moment Chuck drops in the right line or expression. It's fun for me to get to draw a funny moment or expression in what is otherwise a pretty serious/intense scene. It helps that a character like Dog visually lends itself so perfectly to those funny bits.

Defiant #1 Interior Art by Patrick Olliffe

Parenthood is a strong theme in Defiant and I'll tell you, it's easy to get choked up in some of the emotional journeys that Sandusky goes through in just the first issue. I think anyone who is a parent that puts themselves in his shoes would agree. That's the heart of the series, the driving force of Sandusky's actions or inaction at times. Are you able to share why parenthood should be at the center of this story, or if not, your own experiences as to what sparked the collaboration for Defiant?

Chuck Austen: Sure. This is really based on the worst fear a parent can have—outliving your beloved child. So I went into my fear, and found this story. I have a son, and the thought of losing him, and worse, finding out he may have been a criminal, and died in shame, is potent stuff. So you can avoid those emotions, try not to think about them, or you can run with them, and hope they’re universal enough that others can relate if you use them for a good story.

The story existed before the science fiction shell of Defiant, and my relationship with my boy is core to what became Defiant. Patting the seat beside him, and saying “chair.” Calling Sandusky “poppa”, all things my son used to say in his newly-verbal days. I used to chase the garbage truck every Friday with my son in my arms so he could watch it pick up trash, and that went into Sandusky holding his son and showing him the big ships landing and taking off. Basically I approach the emotional resonance of any story as: if it doesn’t choke me up, doesn’t make me cry, or laugh, or wince, or gasp, it’s not going to do that for someone else.

This may be WAY too personal, but it’s answering the question. Chip can pull it back if he wants.

That’s how I find the core of all my scripts. I look deep inside for inspiration. Deal with questions that are hard to answer, but that in many ways I think we all have to, or want to answer. It’s the one area where I let Pat off the hook. LOL. I delve into my own psyche for these things, and leave his psyche alone. Edgeworld was about getting cancer, having it explode your life apart, and trying to rebuild on the ashes of what’s left. The Tormented was about finding your way to become a competent, maybe even talented part of the world around you after a traumatic childhood, and wondering if you’ll ever truly be free of that torment. Defiant is about the fears of the loss of a loving child, and if you can keep it together afterward to find a new life, or are you too old, and too outdated in an ever-changing, ever-evolving, endlessly wondrous and hard to understand universe around you?

Hopefully these are universal story themes that others can relate to, as well.

Patrick Olliffe: The Parenthood theme is definitely a big one for me as well. As Chuck mentioned he has a son and I have a teenage daughter who will be headed off to college in the fall. A big change/transition in my life as a parent. A mixture of pride, excitement, and sadness that I can use when drawing Sansdusky’s scenes that relate to his son. I tell up-and-coming comic artists that you have to “act” the scenes you're depicting. Not enough just to get the anatomy and perspective right. Gotta feel it.

Chuck, this is said to be your last comic book, what brought you to that decision and why did your storied career in comics feel like closure was appropriate with Defiant? 

Chuck Austen: I’ve been working really hard my whole life, and I’m tired. LOL. I’ve had a successful career in several fields, comics, television, novels, and Chip and Dave gave me and Pat a tremendous opportunity to do the one thing the two of us have wanted to do more than anything else–create a rich, deep, fun, positive universe, where people’s imaginations could run wild once we were done. Maybe our kids. Maybe other people’s. So it felt like a good place to step out. Take a nap. Or two.

And Patrick, how did you respond to the news that you'd be drawing Chuck's last comic?

Patrick Olliffe: It wasn't something that caught me off guard necessarily. Chuck and I talk all the time when working together so I could see that this was a possibility. I've loved working with Chuck over the years so there's some disappointment obviously that our journey is coming to an end but I’m very proud of all the worlds we've created together!

What is it about your co-collaborator's work on Defiant that blew you away that you want readers to walk away knowing? 

Chuck Austen: Every pencil stroke, every ink line has been amazing. The first issue wouldn’t resonate the way it did without his pictures being so spot on, and conveying all that power and emotion. If the visual storytelling doesn’t work, I can’t get the audience to laugh, and cry. And kiss their bucks goodbye.

And wait til you see the visual moments in the next two. Wow. Bring your Kleenex.

Patrick Olliffe: Chuck's ability to develop the deep emotions of his characters and their interactions has always been one of the reasons I love working with him. Getting the reader to feel what his characters feel is a Chuck Austen super power. The father/son dynamic of Defiant is just another example of that. I knew he would hit it out of the park and I was right. Yes, bring your Kleenex!!